Valhalla Legends Archive

I was watching Enemy at the Gates yesterday, and I hadn't realized how terrible Stalin actually was.  I read up on it, and do you realize that Stalin killed considerably more Russians than Hitler killed Jews?  It seems like when the word "Evil Dictator" is thrown around, people think more of Hitler putting Jews in Concentration Camps than Stalin putting his own people in Gulags.

Is it ok that Stalin did it because it was his own people?  If not, why isn't he seen as a much worse person than Hitler?  I'm just curious why common knowledge doesn't mark him as such a horrible person.  Hell, I didn't eve hear of Joseph Stalin until Highschool.

On a side-note, the Russian strategy for fighting in WW2 was interesting.  They didn't have much money or technology, but they had tons of people.  So they would give lots of people shitty weapons and send them to die.  If they retreated, they were shot by their own officers.

Quote from: Negotiable on August 03, 2004, 12:12 PM
I'm just curious why common knowledge doesn't mark him as such a horrible person.  

I think it does. I'd heard of him before I studied Russian history at school.

He was equally as bad as Hitler.

Quote from: Arta[vL] on August 03, 2004, 12:19 PM

Quote from: Negotiable on August 03, 2004, 12:12 PM
I'm just curious why common knowledge doesn't mark him as such a horrible person.  

I think it does. I'd heard of him before I studied Russian history at school.

He was equally as bad as Hitler.

I think he was considerably worse than Hitler.  

One thing was his military strategy.  Hitler got his soldiers to fight by promising them a great new world when they were in charge, which might have been true.  Stalin got his soldiers to fight by killing them when they didn't.

And in addition Stalin killed more of his own people, but I already said that so I'm not going to rehash it.

Stalingrad was not an accurate reflection of Russian policy in general. Stalingrad was a city that Russia could simply not afford to loose and Stalin knew he had to stop the Axis advance or loose all of Russia to the Germans. Hitler and Stalin both had any deserters shot, so its not like the motivation for either to fight was that different. Stalin and Hitler both pressed able bodied men into service and persecuted people for little to no reason at all. If Hitler or Stalin ordered somebody to fight and they refused, they were shot either way. The idea of "Not one step backwards." was an attempt to stop the Axis advance where it was, and was not the order throughout the entire war. Stalin killed more of his own people thats true. I don't know if Hitler and Stalin are equally as detestable, but its close.

While I agree that Stalin was an "evil dictator" on par with Hitler, there were entirely different ideologies behind their actions.  While Hitler was an anti-semite and only out to kill Jews because he bore them a ridiculous personal grudge, Stalin is almost solely responsible for bringing his country out of a third-world climate and into the role of a world contender.  So while it's very hard to align yourself with his methods, the results are unquestionable.  He brought his country into the industrialized world--it just happened to be at the expense of 20 million of his own people.

If you're interested in the gulag, one of my favorite books is a short book called "One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich" by Alexander Solzhenitsyn.  

History does remember Stalin as a "bad guy." You have to remember that the US And the Allies first ignored and then appeased Hitler because they thought he would be a strong force to use against Stalin.  

During the invasion of Poland, the red army stood across the river and watched Himmler's forces kill women and children while Stalin refused to intervene.

insert quote about how bad the US is for allying with Stalin here.

Quote from: K on August 03, 2004, 04:46 PM
If you're interested in the gulag, one of my favorite books is a short book called "One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich" by Alexander Solzhenitsyn.  

That is an excellent book. I second your recommendation.

Quote from: Stealth on August 03, 2004, 09:31 PM

Quote from: K on August 03, 2004, 04:46 PM
If you're interested in the gulag, one of my favorite books is a short book called "One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich" by Alexander Solzhenitsyn.  

That is an excellent book. I second your recommendation.

I also agree.  I second it again.  Or third it.