Valhalla Legends Archive

I belong to the We The People congress, a constitutional organization that attempts to fight governmental abuse of citizens.  Recently I posted links to their petitions for redress to congress, as well as the lawsuit being filed against the United States to force them to answer our questions.

One of the main questions is this:  "What law requires an individual to pay income taxes?"  Maybe thousands of people have asked and nobody, not the IRS, not a single court, not congress or the President, has an answer, will answer, or is giving any answer.

Look what the IRS says when the New York Times asks them for how they answer.  They always avoid the question:

http://xgen.vitalstream.com/mcasx.asx?media=1760467&package=1737952

I cannot say that in your case, you do not have to pay taxes.  I am not a lawyer.  The IRS tax code is 7000 pages, and the entire revenue code is 54000 pages.  However, in none of that code is ever addressed an individual citizen's obligation to pay "income taxes".

Sure you fill out a W4 asking your employer to withhold money.  Sure you fill out a 1040 telling the IRS how much you owe.  But the moment you sign that 1040, you are swearing that you owe that money.  Most people who fill out a 1040 and sign it did not owe a dime until they signed it.  At that moment, they ASSESSED THEMSELVES to the IRS that they owe $xxxxx.xx.  Failure to pay what you assessed yourself is what the IRS typically charges you with crimes.  Willful failure to file is another.

Watch the video.

Ever since learning about the law regarding individual income taxes, it has amazed me how few people even question it.  They simply accept that the $5000, $15000, $25000, $35000 they send each year is mandatory.

If you try telling someone about it, their eyes glaze over and it is as if you never spoke.  They are so programmed that taxes are as inevitable as death.

Do you really expect somebody to peruse the federal law books to find the actually law that requires you pay taxes?

There is none.  Many attorneys, ex-IRS enforcement agents, have said so.

Ask them yourself.  Write a letter to the IRS asking them which law requires you to pay taxes.  They will not respond, because they cannot.

Even the IRS has said that compliance is voluntary.  Watch that IRS briefing I linked to.  When asked what law requires an individual to pay taxes, they do not answer the question!  Instead they say stuff like "I've been paying taxes since I had my first job".  Well whoopy doo.  I've been eating cheeseburgers since before I had a job, but the law does not require it!

Hello?

Tax evasion.

Quote from: Naem on March 18, 2004, 06:31 PM
Hello?

Tax evasion.

You cannot evade taxes if you are not required to pay any.  Which tax are you talking about?  There are thousands of different taxes.  None apply to individual income tax.

Did you watch the video?

While I agree that there may be no such law, are you telling me that you do not pay taxes? That you believe people should not pay taxes?

What you believe, and what you should do, are separate things from the law.

I have paid more taxes than most people will in their lives.  Absolutely not one penny of it was required by law.

Taxes are set up to be collected from corporate profit, and other sources, not off the labor of people.  The 16th amendment was written unconstituionally, declared as such by the Supreme Court, and readdressed by congress in 1954 to remove all mention of individual wages income taxes, etc.

But people are so accustomed to paying taxes, that they cannot fathom not paying them.  I do not have income in the constitutional sense, which is corporate profit, and thus I do not owe any taxes.

Are you saying I should just pick a number and send in some money, when I don't owe any taxes?

Grok, so are you saying that we can just "choose" not to pay our income taxes, and that will not result in any undesirable repercussions?

No.  I am saying you are currently choosing to pay income taxes voluntarily.  This is as unfathomable to most people as true as it was to many that the world was not flat.

When you get a marriage license before being married, you do so knowing there is a law which requires it.  If you do not know the law, you can ask the clerk of the court, and they will simply show you the law.

When you wonder why you cannot murder someone, you can ask to see the law, and it will be shown to you.  In fact for everything under the sun which is against the law, there is a law mandating a specific behavior.

But not individual income tax paying.  Every activity in which you partake of individual income tax paying is your own doing, strictly voluntary.  You are choosing to fill out a tax return, you are choosing to call your earnings "income", and you are choosing to assess yourself the 15%, 28%, 35% tax rates, and the final whammy, you make it all legally required when you sign the return.

Your signature cements a legal agreement between you and the IRS saying "I am taxable on this money and owe the amount of tax above, on penalty of perjury and filing false official documents."(etc.)  Until that moment, an individual earner, non-corporatized person, did not owe a dime.

----

Better idea, why don't I send you a form and you can fill it out, including signature, which says you owe me $10,000?  Do this every year.  Why won't you do it?  You do it for the IRS without question!  Is there a law requiring your behavior or do you just religiously believe there is because your parents believed that and taught you the same?  Did THEY read the law?  If you are paying on faith, please start paying me too.

Did you watch the video and see the response of the IRS when asked the law?

Grok I have a suggestion. Why don't you just not pay your taxes this year. When you're arrested and charged, you'll know exactly what laws require you to pay taxes.

Quote from: Hazard on March 23, 2004, 04:18 PM
Grok I have a suggestion. Why don't you just not pay your taxes this year. When you're arrested and charged, you'll know exactly what laws require you to pay taxes.

Since I do not have any taxes, it is impossible for me to not pay them.  The world is not flat.  This is the most difficult thing to get people to understand.  You are not different from most everyone else --- complete acceptance that you are legally required to pay taxes, without any knowledge of the law.  The world is not flat.

But at least 68 million people are smarter than you, according to the IRS, and no longer file individual income tax returns, or pay taxes on their earnings.  Are you part of the remainder, volunteering your money to the IRS?

So just as long as you don't fill out the form, you don't owe them anything and can not be charged for tax evasion?

Quote from: j0k3r on March 23, 2004, 04:51 PM
So just as long as you don't fill out the form, you don't owe them anything and can not be charged for tax evasion?

Glad you're listening.  I urge you to read http://www.givemeliberty.org.

#1 - The IRS is charged by Congress to collect taxes.
#2 - Congress is given power under the 16th amendment to raise taxes.
#3 - The 16th amendment's clauses on individual wages were declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court in 1939.
#4 - Congress rewrote their rules for taxes in 1954, clarifying them so they are constitutional.  Left out completely this time were any and all references to individuals and their earnings.
#5 - "Income" was ordered by the Supreme Court to always mean the same thing for tax purposes, which is "corporate income" or "income separated from its source".
#6 - Your income can never be corporate income, as it can never be separated from its source.  Think of income as essentially "corporate profit".

The IRS uses all kinds of trickery to get you to believe you must file a tax return and to pay taxes.  They do the same to your employer, convincing them they must withhold taxes from your paychecks.  But there is no such law.  The only law regarding withholdings apply to legal "withholding agents", which are enumerated by law, and which private businesses are not a part.  Courts, for example, are legal withholding agents and can enforce withholding.  The website has forms you can fill out and give your employer, who must then stop taking withholding from your paycheck.

Never will the IRS ever tell you the law which requires you to pay individual income taxes.  Ask them yourself.  This should trigger a wake-up alarm in your head.  They'll say anything else, but will never lie.  Individual income taxes are completely voluntary.  It is your signing away your money which makes you legally obligated!

Is this at all the same in Canada? Or has it not been studied yet?