Religion

[shout]

@Christianity:

How does 'god' expect me to believe in him when I am told by mere mortals what to believe? How is Christianity better than Islam? Norse mythology? FSM? That cult down the street?

The most sensible religious view I ever saw was something like this:

God created the universe and how it works. He then watched it grow, wondering what shape it would form, but never interfearing.. By chance, on a small rock orbiting some star in some galaxy, there was some seintient beings.

[topaz]

C'mon seriously. If you don't believe in Religion, the closest comparison is a fairy tale. You've got Adam/Eve eating apples with a talking snake leading them on. Some small dude David takes out Goliath, etc.. Just the stupidity in some of these stories are so hard to believe in.

...You don't really grasp the subtle symbolism in the Bible, huh?

My personal opinion on the word "God", is "hope". When someone has nothing to live for, they created this imaginary character of life within themselves to pull through. Over years this has built up into misleading stories and due to lack of knowledge back in those days has turned into a belief.

Wrong. Why do you think so many HAPPY people believe in God? Because they believe he exists, not because they're in troubled times. You remind me of myself - thinking everyone is weak, and that I'm the only one able to see through the muck and deceit. You're dead wrong.

My favourite example, "Your talking to your friend who is leaning against a tree during a thunderstorm. Bang. Lighting strikes, hitting the tree and evidently killing your friend. Later on your speaking to someone and they come up with the idea of putting up totem polls to cherish the God(s) thinking that by doing so the God(s) won't harm them. Next lighting storm, same scenario but this time it hits the totem polls. As there lack of understanding that it strikes higher objects they just see this as a way to cherish God to keep him/her protecting them.

Trees don't conduct electricity - and lightning strikes, for the most part, are random. In my understanding, Native Americans erect totem poles to both honor their ancestors and appease them.

And so on, eventually taking it further and further out of context over the years.
I don't need a 'God', nor do I need 'Jesus'. I will continue to sin and I'll get over the sins. When I die, I'm dead. I don't wish to live forever, nor could I care about an afterlife. You only get one life and I don't see why I should waste even part of it following a Myth.

I guess you wouldn't mind languishing in hell for eternity. Have fun.

EDIT: CONT/

I have sinned...many times today..
If it's a sin to be a guy then I don't want to not sin.

I've never seen a Biblical reference saying that masturbation / lusting is a sin, especially since you're not married / are not acting on that desire.

That's kind of what happens with me. I'd be sinning pretty much 24/7, as I always think about robbing places, killing, etc.. in dreams just for the fun of playing with your imagination.

If you can find me a quote in the Bible saying that imagining doing these things are sinful, post it. Otherwise, don't assume something like that - because they're completely baseless.

[Explicit]

My personal opinion on the word "God", is "hope". When someone has nothing to live for, they created this imaginary character of life within themselves to pull through. Over years this has built up into misleading stories and due to lack of knowledge back in those days has turned into a belief.

Wrong. Why do you think so many HAPPY people believe in God? Because they believe he exists, not because they're in troubled times. You remind me of myself - thinking everyone is weak, and that I'm the only one able to see through the muck and deceit. You're dead wrong.

He's implying that the original reason for having created the idea of a God has been lost over time, and that includes time up until now.

And so on, eventually taking it further and further out of context over the years.
I don't need a 'God', nor do I need 'Jesus'. I will continue to sin and I'll get over the sins. When I die, I'm dead. I don't wish to live forever, nor could I care about an afterlife. You only get one life and I don't see why I should waste even part of it following a Myth.

I guess you wouldn't mind languishing in hell for eternity. Have fun.

Having been a former Christian, I could have sworn that condemnation was between only you and God, and not anyone else.  You make the statement as if he's already guaranteed a place in hell, but doesn't that violate Matthew 7:1's "Do not judge lest ye be judged"?

What I'm trying to get at is that using the bible as a source for argument is nonsensical.  There are many verses that contain ambiguous meanings, all depending on the individual.  I acknowledge the fact that I contradicted myself in this post, but it's to make that very point.

The bible says you need Christ, but the way I see it, people are doing just fine without him.  If you want to really take the afterlife into account, we can do so in a different thread.

@ quasi-modo: No offense intended, but is it that hard to accept Adron's perspective on it all?  Him viewing Jesus as a mere fairytale is just as equivalent to you believing that Jesus truly did exist; you're both on the opposite extremes.  In regard to your statement about Adron's openmindedness, reread your post.  Clearly, he could say the same thing about you.  Again, no offense intended.

Edit: For the record, religion is something I really dislike debating over.  Its closeness to people's hearts makes it too prone to subjectivity and emotion, the result often being closemindedness on both ends.

[effect]

News flash: The bible was not written by Jesus, it was wrriten by Walt Disney, yes this is true.

While we are on the subject, im an athiest and think your all fools? what do you have to say about that?

[Yegg]

He's implying that the original reason for having created the idea of a God has been lost over time, and that includes time up until now.

I'm not sure why anyone would ever want to assume such a lie (IMO). You can't proove under any circumstance that someone decided to invent God as someone to believe in for whatever reasoning.

Having been a former Christian, I could have sworn that condemnation was between only you and God, and not anyone else.  You make the statement as if he's already guaranteed a place in hell, but doesn't that violate Matthew 7:1's "Do not judge lest ye be judged"?

He never said that he would be going to hell. He merely said that he guesses that he wouldn't mind "languishing in hell".

What I'm trying to get at is that using the bible as a source for argument is nonsensical.  There are many verses that contain ambiguous meanings, all depending on the individual.  I acknowledge the fact that I contradicted myself in this post, but it's to make that very point.

Verses don't have to depend on the individual. This is why we follow a religion. I follow the Roman Catholic Church; they have their own opinions or beliefs on how things are. These people, as well as the leaders of other [largely followed] religions also have people in charge who know more about the Bible and what it means than anyone on these forums. People who have their own, personal opinions or beliefs on specific things in the Bible are most often atheists or people who follow a religion yet are confused what to believe because they may not believe what their religion teaches fully.

The bible says you need Christ, but the way I see it, people are doing just fine without him.  If you want to really take the afterlife into account, we can do so in a different thread.

What people are "doing fine" without him? Most people in today's day in age have many problems, I'm not talking about the old generations who will most likely be dead in less than 10-15 years. The younger generation is full of problems. Why are they fool of problems? No Christ. You can't tell me people are simply "doing fine" without Christ.

[quasi-modo]

@ quasi-modo: No offense intended, but is it that hard to accept Adron's perspective on it all?  Him viewing Jesus as a mere fairytale is just as equivalent to you believing that Jesus truly did exist; you're both on the opposite extremes.  In regard to your statement about Adron's openmindedness, reread your post.  Clearly, he could say the same thing about you.  Again, no offense intended.

He used a term deliberately to step on toes. It doesn't matter if thats what he believes or not, he used it just to get a reaction. But I guess its okay too call christianity of fairytale around here isn't it? As long as I don't say that about Islam it's all good.


About the other statement: Adron did not even try to listen to what we were saying, he just started comparing our religion to Snow White. I atleast have not belittled the beliefs of the other side of the table in this debates and have heard them out. So no, the same thing cannot be said about me.

This thread started off with questions about Christianity being asked an answered, but now it has turned into a Christianity bashing thread. It has gone the way of every other thread remotely related to Christianity on this forum.

[Explicit]

Yegg, it's not for "whatever reasoning," but more or less as a symbol or idea or something of that nature, for hope.  How can you prove that it is a lie?  You can't really prove under any circumstance either, that the idea of God as a symbol of hope was not created for that purpose.  I do see that the goal of our perspectives are the same though, in that both of them help people who seek stability.

Of course someone is going to "mind" burning in hell for an eternity, anyone would!  The "have fun" part seems to indicate that she already knows he's going there.  The same way someone would tell you that they're going out for, say, a jog.  You'd bid them off with, "have fun," because you know where they are going.  Even if the place where that person was going wasn't mentioned, Topaz clearly provided what it was in context to by saying "hell," as if already passing judgement.

I'm taking this only in context to the individual and not anyone or anything else.  If you leave it at the individual level, then you'll notice that misinterpretations of verses can and will occur, even with someone who is unbiased against the bible.  The meanings will be interpreted as how it seeks fit in your experiences in life.

I'm doing fine without Christ.  Sure, I encounter everyday problems just as any other person would, including followers of Christ, but I'm still fine, aren't I?  I'm sure if we were to compare our lives, you'd find that when broken down fundamentally, we're practically the same with a little deviation here and there.  I'm fairly confident that there are many people out there whose lives are similar to ours with respect to that very fundamental breakdown.  If I were to poke at a forum member, Adron (disregarding his age) would serve as a firm example.

@ quasi-modo: Would you prefer the bible be referred to as "fiction"?  I can understand how you would see Adron as deliberately stepping on toes, but what if he truly does believes that the bible is like a fairytale?

Sidenote: I hate butchering posts.

[quasi-modo]

@ quasi-modo: Would you prefer the bible be referred to as "fiction"?  I can understand how you would see Adron as deliberately stepping on toes, but what if he truly does believes that the bible is like a fairytale?

It doesn't matter if he truly believes that or not (which he does of course). For example, what if I believe everything that you believe in deeply is made up. I am not going to say that out loud because I know it will offend you. Rather I will just listen to what you believe and except that you believe it, questioning why you believe in it is one thing, but I am not going to flat out say "what you believe in is a fairytale". I don't care about what Adron really believes, that isn't the issue, the issue is that he deliberately made an offensive statement for the hell of it.

[Explicit]

@ quasi-modo: Would you prefer the bible be referred to as "fiction"? I can understand how you would see Adron as deliberately stepping on toes, but what if he truly does believes that the bible is like a fairytale?

It doesn't matter if he truly believes that or not (which he does of course). For example, what if I believe everything that you believe in deeply is made up. I am not going to say that out loud because I know it will offend you. Rather I will just listen to what you believe and except that you believe it, questioning why you believe in it is one thing, but I am not going to flat out say "what you believe in is a fairytale". I don't care about what Adron really believes, that isn't the issue, the issue is that he deliberately made an offensive statement for the hell of it.

Okay, I understand.

[Adron]

I did not start using the phrase "fairy tale" in this thread, but since it accurately describes what I think about religion, I picked up on it. If you cannot handle that other people do not agree with you, you should not be debating on these forums.

Basically, you can go on believing in a lot of pretty stories, and it may keep you happy. Just close your eyes and ears and go elsewhere. A lot of kids get happier or more obedient because they believe in Santa. Yet we do not let them live out their lives believing in Santa. Maybe we should?


(fairytale reference; the post I *replied* to)

If you think 2.1 billion people around the world believe in a fairytale,

[quasi-modo]

I don't give a damn if you agree with me or not, that isn't what I am concerned with. I am only bothering with posting about this because of your deliberate attempt to be ass holeish in using that terminology. It really doesn't matter what you think (or even really the exact words you used in this case), as I've said, its how you chose to deliver it. We all think things, but we sometimes refrain from saying them so we will not be jerks and step on everyone elses toes. This is what I have chosen to believe, you have chosen when you want to believe, now don't be an ass hole and condescending towards my beliefs. It is apparent that your intent in posting that was just to be negative, thus it was an ass hole like thing to post, and I am just pointing that out.

edit: Okay, you did not infact start the fairytale terminology in this thread, I guess I must have over looked that to some extent, I guess I did not really process that in my original post, but I do still believe it was designed to be an attack.

[Adron]

The post *I* was replying to used the number of christians in the world to support christianity not being about fairy tales (note source of fairy tale). I just pointed out that if you count total numbers, there are more in support of christianity being a fairy tale than against it. So the article does not support the point the poster was trying to make.

So the terminology does not come from me, neither do the referenced numbers. Merely the interpretation of them. Which in my opinion is the correct interpretation if you want to apply the kind of thinking that the original poster did -- majority being right.

[FrOzeN]

When I implied Christianity as a fairy tale, that's always been my personal stance on it. I wasn't even aware that others used that term to describe it.