In need of a good debunking

[TehUser]

Oh, Rule, I'm so disappointed in you.  How can a guy so into physics not know about zero point energy and fields?

Quick intro to zero-point

[Rule]

Even I don't know everything .

Having said that, I have heard of this before, I just didn't remember the term "zero-point energy field".

The example they have in your reference is quite easy to test (as an estimate)..

sigmaX*sigmap <= hvar/2

The energy of an oscillator built by connecting two bodies with a spring (with spring constant k) is
E = 1/2*k*r^2 + p^2/(2m), where r would be the distance between them.
wo^2 = k/m

so let things be measured accurately, sigmaP=hvar/(2q)

The lowest energy will be approx 1/2*k*(sigmaR)^2 + (sigmaP)^2/(2m)
Emin approx = 1/2*k*(q)^2 + (hvar^2)/(2m*4q^2)
set dEmin/d = 0
kq - hvar^2/(m*4q^3) = 0

q^4 = hvar^2/(4m^2*wo^2)
(One way to check to see that this is a minimum is to take the second derivative, and show that it is greater than zero)

Substituting this back into Emin, you get Emin = (approx) 1/2*hvar*wo

It's interesting that you don't get this as a ground energy state if you were to
solve  1/2*k*r^2 = mv^2/r,  (rotating harmonic oscillator), you get
1 energy level below this.  (Try it if you want.  The relation angular momentum = L = mvr = n*hvar helps).

That guy's claim (extracting energy from the zero point energy field) still sounds like nonsense (even more so now)!

[GadgetMan]

Wow. There are a few factors that are not being considered here in this thread.
1) Regarding Hydrogen as a fuel additive: Hydrogen, when inducted onto the airstream of a vehicle (diesel or gasoline) results in a much more efficient burn of the fuel it contacts. This is why the second law isn't being broken at all. It releases a WHOLE lot more of the energy that is currently being wasted using the systems prevalent today.
2) Zero Point Energy Again, the second law is NOT being broken (or even bent!). The so-called "Aero Point Energy FIeld" is currently recognized as "Cosmic Energy" and a whole host of other names. It is a hertofore unexplored (save for Tesla) source of energy. The devicxes to which your contact refers is simply a new spigot on an old pipe!

Please have him contact me. I will help him with his research.
GadgetMan at ClubHHO.com-Don't worry! It's a pure research site dedicated to increase the level of collaboration between closet inventors such as myself.

[MyndFyre]

Wow. There are a few factors that are not being considered here in this thread.
1) Regarding Hydrogen as a fuel additive: Hydrogen, when inducted onto the airstream of a vehicle (diesel or gasoline) results in a much more efficient burn of the fuel it contacts. This is why the second law isn't being broken at all. It releases a WHOLE lot more of the energy that is currently being wasted using the systems prevalent today.
2) Zero Point Energy Again, the second law is NOT being broken (or even bent!). The so-called "Aero Point Energy FIeld" is currently recognized as "Cosmic Energy" and a whole host of other names. It is a hertofore unexplored (save for Tesla) source of energy. The devicxes to which your contact refers is simply a new spigot on an old pipe!

Please have him contact me. I will help him with his research.
GadgetMan at ClubHHO.com-Don't worry! It's a pure research site dedicated to increase the level of collaboration between closet inventors such as myself.

One such factor not being considered was that the thread was more than three years old?

[Grok]

However, welcome to the forum =)

[iago]

One such factor not being considered was that the thread was more than three years old?

I always say, if they are actually contributing something, it's ok.

[GadgetMan]

Thank you, Grok and iago. I tend to dismiss the nay-sayers as they are the ones that discover problems, and not the solutions.
I wonder, are there any of you guys interested in the computer control systems for automotive apps? I have an issue on a device and it's effects on the ECU...

[Yegg]

Thank you, Grok and iago. I tend to dismiss the nay-sayers as they are the ones that discover problems, and not the solutions.
I wonder, are there any of you guys interested in the computer control systems for automotive apps? I have an issue on a device and it's effects on the ECU...

I'm sure there is someone with experience in the area you mention considering some of the people who post on this site and the wide variety of experiences.

I tend to dismiss the nay-sayers as they are the ones that discover problems, and not the solutions.

Without discovering problems, I'm going to have to assume it'd be pretty difficult to find solutions for them..
With that said, MyndFyre is one of the most productive and intelligent people on this site. This claim can be easily proven simply by checking out just a few threads on this site.

[Grok]

Thank you, Grok and iago. I tend to dismiss the nay-sayers as they are the ones that discover problems, and not the solutions.
I wonder, are there any of you guys interested in the computer control systems for automotive apps? I have an issue on a device and it's effects on the ECU...

Not me.  Everytime I start to study this area, I get distracted.  Only skimmed the surface, and only details specific to my Volvo.

[GadgetMan]

Good news on your Volvo, Grok.
If it has an air intake, you can put a HHO system on it. You can share with me the year and model and I'd be delighted to help you designa  system to suit not just your vehicle, but your level of ability.

I'd like to invite you personally to come to the site. I just launched the FireBoard module for discussions, and would love to hear your thoughts on it! Remember, I'm just a GadgetMan...

Thanks for your kindness.

Ron
aka
~GadgetMan~

[Grok]

Good news on your Volvo, Grok.
If it has an air intake, you can put a HHO system on it. You can share with me the year and model and I'd be delighted to help you designa  system to suit not just your vehicle, but your level of ability.

2004 S60R
Red one   
Been wanting to build a CAI for years, never got around to it.  Plans are simple and materials are cheap.
HHO though, what's involved there?

[GadgetMan]

Hey Grok.
Simple: Stainless steel plates or tubes (usually), electolyte and electricity. A housing to hold it and tubing to get the gas to the intake.

How about you coming to my site and take a look. My system is improving and I'm looking for 600% by the time I'm done. Right now I'm at 47% and climbing.

E-mail me when you've been to the site. What's important to me (as the site just turned 15 days old) is what you expected versus what you found. Does it captivate your thinking brain or your creative one? Both?

I'm getting feedback from all over the world from people with initials after their name and people with only initials from the back woods of Kentucky.

You'll find there's something to this HHO stuff. I've been doing it for ten years and I learned more at one meeting of two hours length with six other developers than in a thousand hours of research.

I love it.

So, take a trio to the wild side, Grok! Come join the motor fuel renegades!

If I can do it, ANYONE can!

~GadgetMan~

[Invert]

Grok,

If you are going to do this, just save yourself some time and get this: http://www.saferwholesale.com/product-p/fuel%20saver%201.htm or this: http://alternativegassolutions.com/products.php?cPath=21 or many other kits already out there.

[Grok]

I'm not doing either

[Zakath]

Nay!