Thanks so much for http://www.citizensunited-interactive.org/c41.11/.
I love how it made real, substantive points, backed up by documents and statistics, rather than pulling emothional strings by showing me someone getting their fingers chopped off. Nice to see that fact and reality are more important than fear and anger.
Did the trailers for Michael Moore's movies show the documents/speeches/sources in them?
The movie itself did... bent, distorted, rearranged and skewed to make George W. Bush look like an idiot.
Yay for biased media.
Quote from: Stealth on September 25, 2004, 12:28 PM
The movie itself did... bent, distorted, rearranged and skewed to make George W. Bush look like an idiot.
Obviously. But, I'm assuming Arta was referring to the trailers since - most likely - he hasn't seen the actual movie, as it hasn't been released yet. =P
Quote from: hismajesty[yL] on September 25, 2004, 12:55 PM
Quote from: Stealth on September 25, 2004, 12:28 PM
The movie itself did... bent, distorted, rearranged and skewed to make George W. Bush look like an idiot.
Obviously. But, I'm assuming Arta was referring to the trailers since - most likely - he hasn't seen the actual movie, as it hasn't been released yet. =P
It looks like a good movie. I am going to have to get a copy of 911 and watch it all the way through (I have seen parts but ended up screaming at my pc (cos I downloaded it)) right before I watch 411.
I'll have to as well, peof, I'm against paying to see F. 9/11, so I'll have to download it. I like all the PW coverage in this movie, though. :)
F-911 was a waste. I stood up half way through, hurled my Mountain Dew at the screen, then found a better movie.
Soon, a friend and myself will be releasing our short film, Farenheit 7-11. I will post the link to the uploaded site as soon as it is available.
Quote from: Hazard on September 25, 2004, 03:15 PM
F-911 was a waste. I stood up half way through, hurled my Mountain Dew at the screen, then found a better movie.
Soon, a friend and myself will be releasing our short film, Farenheit 7-11. I will post the link to the uploaded site as soon as it is available.
I bet it was shot in a 7-11... right?
Fahrenheit 9/11 is a blatantly biased liberal propaganda machine made for the applaud of the vocal "Bush haters." The people who have a personal hatred of Bush and would like nothing more than to see him lose the election no matter who his opponent is. These are the same people who put signs saying "we support the Taliban" in their shop windows when we went into Afghanistan.
The sad thing is, other people are actually being duped into believing in the message of the film. The film is not any more of a documentary than The Daily Show is. They both cut and paste clips to make President Bush look bad or comical. It's a typical Michael Moore recipe: add a dash of fact and then pour on the controversy. How can a movie so slanted be considered a documentary which is, by definition, "presenting facts objectively without editorializing or inserting fictional matter?" There have been close to 60 lies and misrepresentations found in his film, including President Bush's alleged relationship with the Bin Ladens and the Saudis.
He plays on people's emotions by showing pictures of dead soldiers, children, and crying families. He goes to congressmen to ask them if their son or daughter is in Iraq, and then conveniently forgets to include the part where one of them tells him that his son is already in Iraq. He then calls for downfall of troops in Iraq by militia forces. This is not a documentary, this is sensationalism. With 9/11, Moore has taken a topic that has caused grief to so many Americans and used it as a smear tactic against the Bush campaign. His antics and attempts at humor end up making him look worse than the people he is trying desperately to get people to hate.
Quote from: Arta[vL] on September 25, 2004, 08:57 AM
Thanks so much for http://www.citizensunited-interactive.org/c41.11/.
I love how it made real, substantive points, backed up by documents and statistics, rather than pulling emothional strings by showing me someone getting their fingers chopped off. Nice to see that fact and reality are more important than fear and anger.
Are you sure you're not French?
I didn't think that F9/11 was that great. The film did make some valid points, as I'm sure 41.1 will, but also went overboard in areas, as I'm equally sure 41.1 will, too. I didn't like the tugging-of-heartstrings in F9/11 either - I found the first half interesting, and the second half pretty irritating. I think that Micheal Moore is ok, but not the god of liberal politics that some seem to think he is.
My beef with that trailer is that it didn't contain anything substantive, other than "micheal moore says blah" - to which I say, who cares? I care what Bush says, what Blair says, and the simple fact of the matter is that Bush has said some pretty outrageous things no matter how you look at it. I agree that F9/11 has a disctinct air of propaganda about it, but anyone who claims that 41.1 won't is clearly just as biased to the Right as a MM fan is biased to the left.
FYI: The stuff MM says in 9/11 is certainly at least supported by evidence, if not proved. All that stuff about the saudis and the bush family being busom buddies is a bit hard to swallow, but the other things he talks about are pretty sound - Bush taking loads of holiday, bush making a prat of himself upteen times, and definitely the Bush administration's abuse of 9/11 to bring in draconian laws and fight unneccesary wars. Does anyone here really think the Patriot Act is a good thing?
My overall point: Showing people's fingers getting cut off and people getting executed is not necessary in order to make a political point. The only possible reason for including that stuff in a film is to make people scared, or angry, or both. Making people agree with you by making them scared is dirty politics, and it undermines the (possibly valid) argument that they are trying to make. Politics should be about fact and substance, not emotive fear-inspiring propoganda, no matter what side of the political spectrum it comes from.
Here comes the double standard again!
Michael Moore is "pretty sound", the conservatives are "outrageous".
Quote from: $t0rm on September 26, 2004, 11:48 AM
Here comes the double standard again!
Michael Moore is "pretty sound", the conservatives are "outrageous".
If you use quotes out of context like that then I'm sure you could do that for what anyone says/posts.
...but you don't complain when Michael Moore does it!
You fell into my trap :)
Quote from: Maddox on September 26, 2004, 02:32 AM
These are the same people who put signs saying "we support the Taliban" in their shop windows when we went into Afghanistan.
Sounds like a bit of an unlikely generalization to me.
Quote from: $t0rm on September 26, 2004, 12:02 PM
...but you don't complain when Michael Moore does it!
You fell into my trap :)
I do complain, just not here. I think the whole arguement is stupid. It's obvious he has an agenda and he will do anything to make that agenda work, get over it and move on. In any case, using his tactics goes to show that you are just as bad as he is.
Edit: I knew it was a "trap," it's too obvious. I find arguments similar to yours to be inconclusive.
Quote from: Arta[vL] on September 26, 2004, 09:54 AM
My beef with that trailer is that it didn't contain anything substantive, other than "micheal moore says blah" - to which I say, who cares? I care what Bush says, what Blair says, and the simple fact of the matter is that Bush has said some pretty outrageous things no matter how you look at it. I agree that F9/11 has a disctinct air of propaganda about it, but anyone who claims that 41.1 won't is clearly just as biased to the Right as a MM fan is biased to the left.
Sorry, they will start packing 30 second trailers with all of their documents for you.
I remember the 9/11 commercials and they had Bush Golfing and looking like an idiot (which was taken out of context in fact, the remarks he made we not made while he was lounging around in crawford or wherever that was).
Quote from: peofeoknight on September 26, 2004, 01:17 PM
Sorry, they will start packing 30 second trailers with all of their documents for you.
Don't be so asinine. All I'm saying is that substance is what is important, and not sensationalism. Of course they don't have to film actual documents or something like that, but they should at least quote facts, and say where they came from.
Quote from: Arta[vL] on September 26, 2004, 01:44 PM
Quote from: peofeoknight on September 26, 2004, 01:17 PM
Sorry, they will start packing 30 second trailers with all of their documents for you.
Don't be so asinine. All I'm saying is that substance is what is important, and not sensationalism. Of course they don't have to film actual documents or something like that, but they should at least quote facts, and say where they came from.
In their commercials?
Quote from: Arta[vL] on September 26, 2004, 01:44 PM
Quote from: peofeoknight on September 26, 2004, 01:17 PM
Sorry, they will start packing 30 second trailers with all of their documents for you.
Don't be so asinine. All I'm saying is that substance is what is important, and not sensationalism. Of course they don't have to film actual documents or something like that, but they should at least quote facts, and say where they came from.
Thats exactly what they do for every ever movie. I mean not just documentaries. They always shows the funniest parts or the most action pact parts. Hidalgo for example, you see this big sand storm, it made the movie look action packed, but was it? Hell no. Thats what gets you into the theater. This movie commercial is like any other, 911's were too.
Arta: when will you just give it up? Liberals arent right 100% of the time, and conservatives are not wrong 100% of the time.
I have not stated either of those positions at any point during this thread. In fact, I have gone out of my way to point out quite the opposite.