Valhalla Legends Archive

I'm still struggling to decide between ColdFusion, ASP.NET, and a custom Python solution.

I am a .net guy, with vb.net (I know java, took ap comp sci, so I could use the c# syntax, I am just more comfortable with vb.net), I love it.

Quote from: $t0rm on July 13, 2004, 11:30 PM
I'm still struggling to decide between ColdFusion, ASP.NET, and a custom Python solution.

ASP.NET!!  Especially if you get into the ASP.NET 2.0 now!

Wow, you only get one choice?

Quote from: Grok on July 14, 2004, 05:19 AM
Wow, you only get one choice?

That was my problem as well. I am personally not biased towards any of those. Then again I am only a hobbyist with an opinion.  :)

Quote from: Grok on July 14, 2004, 05:19 AM
Wow, you only get one choice?

I picked "other" since no other choice covered everything I use...

Quote from: Adron on July 14, 2004, 02:26 PM

Quote from: Grok on July 14, 2004, 05:19 AM
Wow, you only get one choice?

I picked "other" since no other choice covered everything I use...

Perhaps you should tell him what you use.

Yeah, please reply with any combinations...

I use Perl, C++, PHP, classic ASP (vbscript), VB6, bat files / shell scripts - whatever available tool fits the task at hand.

Assuming you mean server-side code ...
VB6(for DLLs to use on Web), ASP, ASP.NET, XML.

Client-side code...
HTML, CSS, JavaScript, VB6 (DLL client components).

PHP  :D

hows php5, i heard it came finally out. I still have a hard on for asp.net of course... fully oo, language flexibility, event aware controls, nothing like it.

I want to be able to:
- Use a general site template
- Include specific pods/pagelets/modules whatever, not just a plain include file, but give it parameters, have caching, etc
- Decouple me from the graphic designer
- Use OOP
- Write an event-driven website, similar to the Mach-II system
- Database caching and decoupling

How does ASP.NET work for me?

asp.net is fully oo, asp.net has event driven controls so you can infact do event driven programming, you can do includes - code behinds - use external classes - etc, and asp.net can do data cacheing (though I do not do this very extensively), you can also use a general templet with includes and generally I use css too.... I do not know what "- Decouple me from the graphic designer" means, like what you are going for. But asp.net can do everything else for you.

My graphic designer can give me a template generated by the tool of his choice, and I do minimal effort to integrate it into the site.

Quote from: $t0rm on July 15, 2004, 01:41 PM
I want to be able to:
- Use a general site template

This is why I recommend looking at ASP.NET 2.0.  I get a hard-on looking at Master Pages:
MSDN Magazine June 2004: Master Pages (http://msdn.microsoft.com/msdnmag/issues/04/06/ASPNET20MasterPages/default.aspx)

Quote from: $t0rm on July 15, 2004, 01:41 PM
- Include specific pods/pagelets/modules whatever, not just a plain include file, but give it parameters, have caching, etc

Personalize the look to your user (even changing your Master Page if you hook into the right event -- the PreInit event).  MSDN Magazine June 2004: Web Parts and Personalization (http://msdn.microsoft.com/msdnmag/issues/04/06/ASPNET20Portals/default.aspx)

Quote from: $t0rm on July 15, 2004, 01:41 PM
- Decouple me from the graphic designer

Like I told you on AIM, the designer does an extremely well job if your graphic designer gives you something of a template to start off with.  Of course, if you're using Master Pages, you definitely don't need to worry about it -- your graphic designer will worry strictly about the Master Page.  But, the AoA Website (http://www.clan-aoa.org/main_news.aspx) (that I haven't kept updated) was done in the ASP.NET 1.0 system.  I got the template from a friend who made it in ImageReady and Photoshop.  I just plugged in the rest.

Quote from: $t0rm on July 15, 2004, 01:41 PM
- Use OOP

ASP.NET is all OOP.  If you don't OOP it you're crazy.

Quote from: $t0rm on July 15, 2004, 01:41 PM
- Write an event-driven website, similar to the Mach-II system

I'm not too sure about what the Mach-II system is or does, but ASP.NET is solid on event-driven programming.  The page-postbacks are handled superbly, and with ASP.NET 2.0, you can post-back without making the page refresh using an ActiveX control (which is built-in to the Script Callbacks feature).

Quote from: $t0rm on July 15, 2004, 01:41 PM
- Database caching and decoupling

As I understand it, ADO.NET is a completely decoupled system of using databases.  Essentially, you load your database, do your database functions on the data in-memory, cached, and then when you're idle and it's convenient, you write a bunch of transactions back to the database at once, making for a disconnected model.

Quote from: $t0rm on July 15, 2004, 01:41 PM
How does ASP.NET work for me?

Here's a summary of the features: MSDN Magazine June 2004: An Overview of the New Services, Controls, and Features in ASP.NET 2.0. (http://msdn.microsoft.com/msdnmag/issues/04/06/ASPNET20Overview/)

If you have the ability to use Beta in production (which I understand many sites did during the beta of ASP.NET 1.0), I would go with it.  I'm downloading Visual Studio 2005 at the moment at home, and I'm going to install it on my laptop, where I do all my development (along with Longhorn PDC 2004!!!).  So, if you have access to it, I would definitely check it out.  It may just be worth your while.  :)

QuoteOf course, if you're using Master Pages, you definitely don't need to worry about it -- your graphic designer will worry strictly about the Master Page.  But, the AoA Website (that I haven't kept updated) was done in the ASP.NET 1.0 system.  I got the template from a friend who made it in ImageReady and Photoshop.  I just plugged in the rest.

You might want to consider relaxing your requirements for your visitors in the future.  Why would you want to optimize a site for two specific browsers and only one screen resolution with only one color depth?  I don't have either of those browsers and I don't use that screen resolution or that color depth and it doesn't display (http://forum.valhallalegends.com/files/AoA.jpg) correctly.  Also, why would you want to have a special font that nobody has and request that they download it?  Maybe you are a "Windows Only" clan?

who said a thing about optimizing the site to one or two browsers and one resolution? A master template can be accessible... last time I checked my sites will work it ie6, 5.5, 5, mozilla/ns, opera, safari, and even non graphical browsers link lynx. You do not need to do a browser detect to make a page that will go cross platform, and have several pages.
Also if you design for 800 x 600 barely anyone is going to have to deal with a horizontal scroll bar so the site will still look nice, or you could always make a fluid layout that resizes to fit the window's width.

OT, is there a WYSIWYG CSS designer that renders correctly?

peofeoknight, please notice the clever way that I quoted Myndfyre and added a link to a screenshot of the AoA page that he provided.  If you investigate further, you will notice that on the front page of that site, an image (http://forum.valhallalegends.com/files/intropage03A.gif) provides information on how the site was designed.  No more crack for you.  :)

Quote from: peofeoknight on July 15, 2004, 11:29 PM
who said a thing about optimizing the site to one or two browsers and one resolution? A master template can be accessible... last time I checked my sites will work it ie6, 5.5, 5, mozilla/ns, opera, safari, and even non graphical browsers link lynx. You do not need to do a browser detect to make a page that will go cross platform, and have several pages.
Also if you design for 800 x 600 barely anyone is going to have to deal with a horizontal scroll bar so the site will still look nice, or you could always make a fluid layout that resizes to fit the window's width.

Quote from: Thing on July 15, 2004, 10:05 PM

QuoteOf course, if you're using Master Pages, you definitely don't need to worry about it -- your graphic designer will worry strictly about the Master Page.  But, the AoA Website (that I haven't kept updated) was done in the ASP.NET 1.0 system.  I got the template from a friend who made it in ImageReady and Photoshop.  I just plugged in the rest.

You might want to consider relaxing your requirements for your visitors in the future.  Why would you want to optimize a site for two specific browsers and only one screen resolution with only one color depth?  I don't have either of those browsers and I don't use that screen resolution or that color depth and it doesn't display (http://forum.valhallalegends.com/files/AoA.jpg) correctly.  Also, why would you want to have a special font that nobody has and request that they download it?  Maybe you are a "Windows Only" clan?

Yes, we are a "Windows Only" clan.  AoA isn't a programming clan, it's a gaming clan.  The web site serves very effectively for us.  The last time I checked my website's stats, I had only 2 visits from Netscape, and none from any other browser: strictly IE.  That was one of the design decisions when choosing to render the website with an <iframe> object.  People in AoA don't use Linux.  I'm the only one who knows the first thing about programming in the clan.

Quote from: $t0rm on July 15, 2004, 11:39 PM
OT, is there a WYSIWYG CSS designer that renders correctly?

Yes.  The CSS support is quite nice.  :)

dreamweaver has half way decent css support, but nothing beats codeing it by hand.

Quote from: peofeoknight on July 16, 2004, 01:47 AM
dreamweaver has half way decent css support, but nothing beats codeing it by hand.

Agreed.  This is a subject you know well, and one of your first posts on our Web Development forum caused me to study CSS in more depth than I had previously.  Having done so, I am usually unhappy with the WYSIWYG designers code output.  Often now, I use the designers to create my prototype and then rewrite the code that generates the HTML/CSS/JavaScript.

I much prefer coding CSS in notepad or using Adobe GoLive.

What version of GoLive? I've used 6, and I downloaded 7 but I heard it was buggy.

I do all of my hard codeing in dw becuase it has excelent asp.net support. I have not used go live though. How is Go Live compared to Home Site or Dreamweaver?

GoLive has terrible code editing support, which I believe is where Dreamweaver shines. GoLive is adept at creating CSS layouts though.

so its similar to home site then? You used homesite? Its like a light dreamweaver that sucks for scripting in.

I thought homesite was the other way around...

Its not that great, atleast for asp.net, and I hear its crappy to use for php too. But some people I know that use it use it because they say it is less cluttered then dreamweaver....

I'm very good with PHP, but since everyone is starting to use it i'll probaly swich just so I can be special. :)