I love zerg! They are so much fun they can mass and become really strong. And they are just so much better then the others. So if you disagree then stfu lol jk. So what is your favorite races?
Semite.
zerg is fast to build but not as strong
I <3 zerg.
With enough minerals and hatcheries, you can just keep pumping waves of units at the enemy, unstoppable.
Quote from: j0k3r on April 28, 2004, 08:05 PM
I <3 zerg.
With enough minerals and hatcheries, you can just keep pumping waves of units at the enemy, unstoppable.
Hard to stop*
unless ur protoss and get 20 gateways at beginning and keep pumping out zealots and rushing the zerg, eventually zerg will fall ;D
ps:works good on money maps :D
I don't like the zerg because I they remind me of bugs. :[
Quote from: LW-Falcon on April 28, 2004, 08:24 PM
unless ur protoss and get 20 gateways at beginning and keep pumping out zealots and rushing the zerg, eventually zerg will fall ;D
ps:works good on money maps :D
Lurkers.
No, I meant unstoppable. Every time I had lots of money and lots of hatcherys, I won.
Quote from: j0k3r on April 29, 2004, 05:57 AM
Quote from: LW-Falcon on April 28, 2004, 08:24 PM
unless ur protoss and get 20 gateways at beginning and keep pumping out zealots and rushing the zerg, eventually zerg will fall ;D
ps:works good on money maps :D
Lurkers.
No, I meant unstoppable. Every time I had lots of money and lots of hatcherys, I won.
Zerg is easy to use, especially with attack rally. And it works very well with lots of money. Protoss mass gateways are also good for sucking up a lot of money though. You just have to spend as much money there as the zerg has in hatcheries.
Ill take you any time any day wth protoss.
Ill own Zerg
CARRIERS OWN
Zerg < Protoss but Zerg > Terran
On a real money map, I think you'll have lots of trouble using carriers against zerg.
When I play Starcraft (once in a blue moon) I'm never Zerg, I hate them. I like Protoss though :)
Quote from: Adron on April 30, 2004, 11:12 AM
On a real money map, I think you'll have lots of trouble using carriers against zerg.
No need for carriers, just do reaver and dt drops and attack with archons.
QuoteCARRIERS OWN
Everyone knows that Hydralisk if upgraded the same as the carriers and in reach to attack own the carriers. But if they are out of reach its called scourges..
Lurkers > Reavers with no ops
Mass lings > Reavers
Reavers are way to slow to attack again lings upgraded with there speed will plow right throught them..
And Terran just plan suck ass..
Quote from: LW-Falcon on April 30, 2004, 04:26 PM
Quote from: Adron on April 30, 2004, 11:12 AM
On a real money map, I think you'll have lots of trouble using carriers against zerg.
No need for carriers, just do reaver and dt drops and attack with archons.
DT's? Pretty useless against zerg... Reavers are ok, but hydras own them. And archons get completely owned by hydras too. How are you going to defend your base against the zerg?
One word for zerg vs protoss. Plague.
Cannons and Dragoons should be good defense for my base, as for scourges, just bring a few corsairs along and toast them. Mass zerglings isn't a very good idea for a large group of reavers since they do 125 splash damage, as the lings crowd around them to attack 1 hit from the reaver would take out alot of zerglings. DT drops are very good at taking out miners and weakening the enemy's economy. Upgraded and massed hydras could take out alot of archons but what if I decide to do a few storms right in the middle of that group? ;D
What if the health of all your units and buildings is down to 5? What if I have lurkers around my drones, and they have burrow? What if I have overlords to see invisible units? What if blah blah blah, I used to have everything down pact, I had seen it all, and was guarded against it all. Dragoons as defence isnt the greatest idea either, as they take up resources.
If you want to mass Reavers go for it. I will just mass mutas. If you want to mass reavers and high templars go for it I will just mass Mutas and lings. Zerg is THE best race out off all of them as long as you know what your doing.
Quote from: Brandon on April 30, 2004, 08:51 PM
Zerg is THE best race out off all of them as long as you know what your doing.
Tell that to people playing *real* starcraft (non-money maps). The races are near perfectly balanced when you play how you are supposed to. Or even check out the high ranks of WGTour (http://www.wgtour.com), you'll see that it varies. Zerg is not "the best" -- no race is better than another, everything has a counter. Starcraft is a masterpiece of balance :)
And if you're playing protoss vs. zerg, you need to get some gateways up right away and put pressure on them with zealots. Don't let them get to the point where they have a counter for everything you do.
i played on the wgtour
Hitmen, that was what i posted earlier in this topic. And Brood War is a very balanced game, exept basic units, Protoss wins there. ;)
Quote from: LW-Falcon on April 30, 2004, 08:14 PM
Cannons and Dragoons should be good defense for my base, as for scourges, just bring a few corsairs along and toast them.
Cannons and dragoons get eaten mighty quick by 300 zerglings. Stopping a zerg army isn't all that easy.
Quote from: LW-Falcon on April 30, 2004, 08:14 PM
Mass zerglings isn't a very good idea for a large group of reavers since they do 125 splash damage, as the lings crowd around them to attack 1 hit from the reaver would take out alot of zerglings.
That's true, but your reavers will require some management to do good. You can't just land them in a base, they'll be killed by sunkens. As a base defense coupled with cannons, reavers can be effective, but they tend to run out of shots fast. And they fire slow.
Quote from: LW-Falcon on April 30, 2004, 08:14 PM
DT drops are very good at taking out miners and weakening the enemy's economy.
This is a money map, so the economy is infinite anyway. The assumption is that you have to kill the enemy, not take out his economy.
Quote from: LW-Falcon on April 30, 2004, 08:14 PM
Upgraded and massed hydras could take out alot of archons but what if I decide to do a few storms right in the middle of that group? ;D
Storms work fine, and a skilled player with storms can do a lot of good. But then, a few queens can take out a lot of templars, ...
QuoteTell that to people playing *real* starcraft (non-money maps).
I play both non money and money with one race (zerg). And just cuase you play non money doesn't make you a real starcraft player that just better qualifies you for WgTour and crap like that.
DT drops will hopefully take out alot of the opponent's miners, therefore forcing him to build more miners to replace those lost. Thats the opportunity to keep the pressure on them, slowly draining out his defenses in the hope that hes still working on resources. Then come from one side with some carriers cloaked by a few arbiters and if scourges come along, put them into stasis and do a few disruption webs in his defenses followed by storm. That alone could take out alot of their base.
QuoteDT drops will hopefully take out alot of the opponent's miners, therefore forcing him to build more miners to replace those lost. Thats the opportunity to keep the pressure on them, slowly draining out his defenses in the hope that hes still working on resources. Then come from one side with some carriers cloaked by a few arbiters and if scourges come along, put them into stasis and do a few disruption webs in his defenses followed by storm. That alone could take out alot of their base.
That would only work on a newb player. And now adays they only play vs computers so that wouldn't ever work unless you are, 1)bsing or 2) The newb is trying to get better by playing against humans..
Thats not entirely true, I've played many good players with my strategy and won. You say that it won't work but how are you so sure? After all, You've only read my strategy but you haven't seen it yet.
Every unit has a couterunit. For every unit, there's something that can own it, and something it can own. For the most part.
Quote from: Adron on April 30, 2004, 08:12 AM
Zerg is easy to use, especially with attack rally.
Ah, good memories there :D
Ok really, you can talk, but can you back it up? Arrange to meet online or something you're not proving anything by saying "my DTs killed your drones now you take 10minutes to rebuild drones while I kill you with carriers! I text-craft owned you!".
Your dts and carriers wouldn't do anything against a good zerg player. First of all no good zerg player leaves his main base unprotected without obs and attacking units (Hydralisk, Lurkers, lings ext) next to it. Then your dts would be usless. And those carriers and aribiters wouldn't do as much damage to a good zerg player as you think. For example, when you get scourgase they come in pairs, so lets say I have 15 hatchs, each one carring three larva (3 x 15 x 2) that would be the amount of scourges that you would have to stop with the aribiters little statis field, and with that many scourges you wouldn't get them all. So If I had a combination of scourgase and hydras your aribiters would focus on the scourgase that would be after your aribiters and sense the statis field cost like 150 or 200 energy you can only do it once in a great while leaving your aribiers open for attack. Then while this is going on your carriers would be attacking my hydralisk, and while this mess is going on your aribiters would be destroyed by my scourgase, leaving the rest of my scourgase and Hydralisk alone with your uncloacked carriers. So when your aribiter are gone, what are you going to do? Zerg has an overwhelming mass ability whitch should be taken seriously if you want to beat a zerg player.
And I do admit that Protoss is a really good race if you know what your doing. But the only race I despise it Terran. (They Suck!!)
Quote from: j0k3r on May 01, 2004, 01:08 PM
you're not proving anything by saying "my DTs killed your drones now you take 10minutes to rebuild drones while I kill you with carriers! I text-craft owned you!".
Read all of my posts, where did you get the idea that I was text-crafting or whatever you call it? I was just sharing my strategy, notice that I used opponent and enemy instead of a certain name.
Quote from: j0k3r on May 01, 2004, 01:08 PM
Ok really, you can talk, but can you back it up? Arrange to meet online or something you're not proving anything by saying "my DTs killed your drones now you take 10minutes to rebuild drones while I kill you with carriers! I text-craft owned you!".
Brandon, did you miss my post or just ignore it? And it's spelled scourges, not scouragases.
Quote from: LW-Falcon on May 01, 2004, 02:51 PM
Read all of my posts, where did you get the idea that I was text-crafting or whatever you call it? I was just sharing my strategy, notice that I used opponent and enemy instead of a certain name.
Quote from: LW-Falcon on May 01, 2004, 11:05 AM
DT drops will hopefully take out alot of the opponent's miners, therefore forcing him to build more miners to replace those lost. Thats the opportunity to keep the pressure on them, slowly draining out his defenses in the hope that hes still working on resources. Then come from one side with some carriers cloaked by a few arbiters and if scourges come along, put them into stasis and do a few disruption webs in his defenses followed by storm. That alone could take out alot of their base.
I never said you were using names, I said you were making up scenarios. You don't know that would have happened, and you can't prove it will happen everytime. If you're going to argue, go meet on starcraft. Also, note what you said about starcraft, it's pretty damn balanced, so there is no #1 race, WHAT ARE YOU ARGUING ABOUT?
It's like saying "In counter-strike, I'll headshot you before you see me!".
Quote from: Brandon on May 01, 2004, 11:05 AM
QuoteTell that to people playing *real* starcraft (non-money maps).
I play both non money and money with one race (zerg). And just cuase you play non money doesn't make you a real starcraft player that just better qualifies you for WgTour and crap like that.
Never said it does, but I don't consider money maps real starcraft. And playing both types of maps often encourages bad habbits (mainly turtling) when playing real ones.
QuoteBrandon, did you miss my post or just ignore it?
No I read that but why do you ask? And thanks for the spell check. I can't spell all that great..
QuoteWHAT ARE YOU ARGUING ABOUT?
Witch race we think is better. And I wouldn't call it arguing cause no one is getting angry. But w/e its all the same.
Quote from: Brandon on May 01, 2004, 07:48 PM
QuoteWHAT ARE YOU ARGUING ABOUT?
Witch race we think is better. And I wouldn't call it arguing cause no one is getting angry. But w/e its all the same.
Why does someone have to get angry for it to be an argument? You're trying to argue over what is the best and how this can do that, when there is no basis behind it. I played over 1500 games when I used to play starcraft, I've seen it all, and nothing is the same twice.
You can't argue about what works in an RTS, because it's always different.
Quote from: j0k3r on May 01, 2004, 08:27 PM
Quote from: Brandon on May 01, 2004, 07:48 PM
QuoteWHAT ARE YOU ARGUING ABOUT?
Witch race we think is better. And I wouldn't call it arguing cause no one is getting angry. But w/e its all the same.
Why does someone have to get angry for it to be an argument? You're trying to argue over what is the best and how this can do that, when there is no basis behind it. I played over 1500 games when I used to play starcraft, I've seen it all, and nothing is the same twice.
You can't argue about what works in an RTS, because it's always different.
I don't have an opinion on the initial debate, but I do think arguing is when people get mad. Debating, in my opinion, is when everyone is providing valid points, and not just getting mad and slamming people.
Like I said I have no opinion on this thread other than this. I just find it interesting and saw something I don't agree with, so I felt the need to debate it. Let's create a thread in the stupid arguments forum if there is a need to continue this.
Quote from: Hitmen on April 30, 2004, 10:18 PM
Quote from: Brandon on April 30, 2004, 08:51 PM
Zerg is THE best race out off all of them as long as you know what your doing.
Tell that to people playing *real* starcraft (non-money maps). The races are near perfectly balanced when you play how you are supposed to. Or even check out the high ranks of WGTour (http://www.wgtour.com), you'll see that it varies. Zerg is not "the best" -- no race is better than another, everything has a counter. Starcraft is a masterpiece of balance :)
And if you're playing protoss vs. zerg, you need to get some gateways up right away and put pressure on them with zealots. Don't let them get to the point where they have a counter for everything you do.
Hitmen is exactly right. All the races have advantages and weaknesses to one another. It all depends on how the player plays the race and how they execute their strategy.
I don't consider playing 'money maps' real Starcraft either. To me money maps don't require a strategy. Pretty much it's mass then attack and Turtle. Non-money maps you have to worry about expos. If you turtle you pretty much lose. Also there is no microing involved in money maps.
Check this one, it's all about the Zerg =)
http://cybersmoke.chat.ru/zip/best%201v1%20money%20game.rep
And, I completely agree with Adron that on a money map you'll have
lots of trouble using carriers against the zerg. This replay proves it well.
Quote from: Cyber Smoke on May 27, 2004, 01:42 AM
Check this one, it's all about the Zerg =)
http://cybersmoke.chat.ru/zip/best%201v1%20money%20game.rep
And, I completely agree with Adron that on a money map you'll have
lots of trouble using carriers against the zerg. This replay proves it well.
One game means nothing, I had played over 1000 games when I still played starcraft, and people are more creative than you think.
Terran got science vessels vs zerg, zerg has plague/swarm vs toss/terran, toss has psy-web/psy storm. It all depends on the skill of the player, not how good the race is.
Quote from: Falcon[anti-yL] on April 30, 2004, 08:14 PM
Cannons and Dragoons should be good defense for my base, as for scourges, just bring a few corsairs along and toast them. Mass zerglings isn't a very good idea for a large group of reavers since they do 125 splash damage, as the lings crowd around them to attack 1 hit from the reaver would take out alot of zerglings. DT drops are very good at taking out miners and weakening the enemy's economy. Upgraded and massed hydras could take out alot of archons but what if I decide to do a few storms right in the middle of that group? ;D
A good zerg player, such as myself could so easily counter that strategy.
A couple lurker + hydra drops at your minerals to bring back your attack, a couple ultralisks+hydralisks at your front while you're cleaning up your minerals, guardians+mutalisks coming from the side, you lost, k ^.^
As for the dt drop on the minerals, any decent player has a couple lurkers in their mineral line with a sunken/spore colony or two near there.
Any good zerg player is gonna have at least 3-4 ++ hatches by the time you get up the lurkers and hydra for the mineral attack. And a decent defense set up around his minerals so that attack is kinda useless and if you do get the attack it takes 1-2 minutes to get up another set of 10 drones so it doesn't really do much. Attack wise I just build about 20-30 hatches, fully upgrade, then rally and kill. If anyone attacks you base 90 hydra poppin up usually screws any attack up for someone else.
Quote from: j0k3r on May 01, 2004, 03:29 PM
It's like saying "In counter-strike, I'll headshot you before you see me!".
Counter-Strike is fun, wish I still had the game....
Or hell, a computer even.
In Addendum:
He's right. It's very well balanced. Why argue the nuance of each race?
On vanilla (reg) Starcraft.
Zerg is the best race, because mutas own > all, and no dont argue, I'll kill you before you get more then can make your reavers, archons etc. Against terran. Well you just harras, and well there isn't a stim or meds, so owned there.
But the broodwar came along. Thats when it became balanced.
Year and a half?
No, you need to learn how to flank, and scout. Strategies are only good for certain points of the game.
That, and you need to constantly know what hes up to. Like I said before its mainly scouting that wins the game.
Nah dude. Just do a fast drop on his minerals and hes toast EVERY TIME.
For the love of god, read the dates.
Fast drop? What if he discovers you're building a shuttle? Thats now countered, so you're basically wasting money, so you try to build shit on his ledge, if he scouts that, then you're countered.
Its all scouting, and knowing what unit > his units.
And the date? So what? I aint going to post a new thread about Zerg being the best race when there is already one. What is the point of being told one already exists etc?
Quote from: WoOdTroll on December 17, 2005, 05:10 PM
Fast drop? What if he discovers you're building a shuttle? Thats now countered, so you're basically wasting money, so you try to build shit on his ledge, if he scouts that, then you're countered.
Its all scouting, and knowing what unit > his units.
And the date? So what? I aint going to post a new thread about Zerg being the best race when there is already one. What is the point of being told one already exists etc?
What if you waste too much time scouting and falls behind in production and research? You're fucked.
No, thats simply because you cant multi task, thats exactly why you use hotkeys for buildings, and units.
I've beaten good national players, and players alot of people know, and say that are good.
Does anyone here like Terran? IMO a very effective race vs. Protoss/Zerg. Especially when you master the drop ship hit & run micro.
Ever watch Xellos/Nada? ^^
Put some siege tanks on cliffs, every ground unit in range=owned.
You're a starcraft newb.
Siege tanks are pretty useless protoss will always get shuttle vs terran, and zerg will always get mutasliks or slow drop. So he can attack your cliff or main resources right away.
O no woodtroll called me a starcraft noob, I should kill myself now...
If I see a shuttle coming, I could just unsiege the tanks and put them into dropships and fly away? Or I could even accompany the tanks with Goliaths, theres a counter for everything.
I am sure if you did, none would care anyway.
So what does that leave you with? He puts a 2 dts and 2 zealots gg your drop, what are you going to have? Not only that but your build was based on making that successful, moreover you're laggin behind him now.
What it really comes down to is if you're able to out-maneuver your opponent, and your ability to successfully counter your opponents units. The faster you are at these, the more likely that you will win.
Quote from: WoOdTroll on December 19, 2005, 05:12 PM
So what does that leave you with? He puts a 2 dts and 2 zealots gg your drop, what are you going to have? Not only that but your build was based on making that successful, moreover you're laggin behind him now.
I just told you, the tanks could be unsieged, loaded onto dropships standing by, and flown somewhere else.
I believe you can win with any race providing you have a GREAT team. No race is better IMO.
Zerg can easily be owned if you scout the map enough and find out what your opponent is making.
Guards can be owned by anything non-ground, Devs can be owned by anything ground. A combination of both would require freezing them with an arbiter and attacking teams of them until there's nothing left. Once again Terran wraiths are powerful against those as well.
Hydra can EASILY be owned by tanks, carriers, or battle cruisers.
lings...um..yeah.
Zerg isn't the best but definetly convient at times. I play best with toss or zerg.
I propose we all play in a free-for-all.
I play zerg, trust me buddy, you wouldn't get a chance to fly away, you'd be dead. My little 25 mineral and 75 gas will eat your 300 min+shuttle cargo.
And if you dont know what unit that is, then you actually do suck. Oh wait you do. Tell me your basic b/o?
Zerg > *
Quote from: WoOdTroll on December 19, 2005, 06:02 PM
I play zerg, trust me buddy, you wouldn't get a chance to fly away, you'd be dead. My little 25 mineral and 75 gas will eat your 300 min+shuttle cargo.
And if you dont know what unit that is, then you actually do suck. Oh wait you do. Tell me your basic b/o?
My build order each game depends on my opponent's race and strategy. Hahaha yes I suck, even though I've never even played you before, your shit talking is quite amusing though, more please.
Zerg suck, are you kidding? Stimpacked firebats and cloaked wraiths can beat just about everything they have.
Your stupidity is amusing, but you always give more anyways. So lickmeh.
And no firebats suck vs hydralisks, and fast overlords, not only that but put 3 spores around your economy and that harrasment wont be efficient, not only that but their overlord would scout tech anyway, and good zerg know when you're building tech.
Quote from: Falcon[anti-yL] on December 19, 2005, 06:52 PM
Quote from: WoOdTroll on December 19, 2005, 06:02 PM
I play zerg, trust me buddy, you wouldn't get a chance to fly away, you'd be dead. My little 25 mineral and 75 gas will eat your 300 min+shuttle cargo.
And if you dont know what unit that is, then you actually do suck. Oh wait you do. Tell me your basic b/o?
My build order each game depends on my opponent's race and strategy. Hahaha yes I suck, even though I've never even played you before, your shit talking is quite amusing though, more please.
If your whole strategy depends on the race and strategy selection of your opponent(s), I'll assume you lose a lot. I'm assuming this because Starcraft has the "
Random" option which allows the players race to be selected randomly, this means you'll have to scout the whole map in order for you to even begin to plan your strategy.
Also, Zerg > * - If you disagree with me then you are automatically wrong.
Why don't you all settle this in a match?
The majority of my free time is consumed by my social life, the remainer goes to posting on various forums and occasionally chatting online. I don't have enough free time to spend on a game of Starcraft.
Yeah Akamas you make yourself sound like you have just enough time to eat and sleep, whoa mr.busy wow you're hot shit now--you come on a forum full of nerds to brag about your social life...+1 self esteem to you im sure.
Quote from: Topaz on December 20, 2005, 05:27 AM
If you have time to type up a post, I'm sure you can allocate some time out of your schedule for a game of Starcraft :).
As my post above states: "
the remainer goes to posting on various forums and occasionally chatting online"
Quote from: Tazo on December 20, 2005, 02:56 PM
Yeah Akamas you make yourself sound like you have just enough time to eat and sleep, whoa mr.busy wow you're hot shit now--you come on a forum full of nerds to brag about your social life...+1 self esteem to you im sure.
You assume too much, I wasn't bragging, merely stating.
your all wrong terran is the best. check out the sons of korhal. www.freewebs.com/sok-community
What does that site have to do with anything actually what are you showing?
When I used to game a lot, I always used Zerg. I agree. Zerg is the best. ;D
Quote from: AntiVirus on April 28, 2004, 05:56 PM
I love zerg! They are so much fun they can mass and become really strong. And they are just so much better then the others. So if you disagree then stfu lol jk. So what is your favorite races?
Terran is the strongest for most play :)
Otherwise Nal_Ra style toss is da buttz.
Edit (I'm editing this as I read the rest of the thread)
Zerg is VERY hard to play, it's incrediably hard to control that many units well. Macroing hatcheries is also pretty tough to do. Balancing peon production is pretty tough.
Zerg is _very_ vulnerable to DT's for one reason: underestimation. I can honestly say I've been saved by a DT countless times by holding off a Z push, I've ruined many expansions, basically the DT is a tool to take advantage of a Z; not really bread and butter.
QuoteYour dts and carriers wouldn't do anything against a good zerg player.
Carriers are
extremely potent late game.
QuoteI played over 1500 games when I used to play starcraft, I've seen it all, and nothing is the same twice.
That kind of attitude makes playing important games much harder, you need to realize that there are many new things when you don't have a very generic view of things.
QuoteAs for the dt drop on the minerals, any decent player has a couple lurkers in their mineral line with a sunken/spore colony or two near there.
If you watch professional replays keeping units in your main is pretty rare. Using overlords to scout and KNOW when a drop is coming instead of wasting resources is far more popular.
QuoteSiege tanks are pretty useless protoss will always get shuttle vs terran, and zerg will always get mutasliks or slow drop. So he can attack your cliff or main resources right away.
Saying a race will
always do something is pretty ignorant, let alone the fact that seige tanks are essential in TvP.
QuoteIf your whole strategy depends on the race and strategy selection of your opponent(s), I'll assume you lose a lot. I'm assuming this because Starcraft has the "Random" option which allows the players race to be selected randomly, this means you'll have to scout the whole map in order for you to even begin to plan your strategy.
You can scout at 7 and get an early view, not that hard to change a strategy...
Play some Hunters and zerg owns to the extreme
Thats why a smart zerg player has his units out. and 2sunken colonies and 1 spore. Ta da and they got little to nothing!
I went for quick hatch and just hid my ovies, i used a drone to scout. I alrdyk now a toss would go for 1 rush, or 2 corsair. Just get 2 fast lurks, rush their ramp or get slow drops while uping lurker aspect, and voila. then when you go attack sneak the 2 fuckersi n the min patch and la de da
if they got a cannon, just move your lurker attack gas, or bettery get attack the gateways from a distance.
Terran is pretty much the same way.