Valhalla Legends Archive

General => General Discussion => Topic started by: David on October 21, 2005, 03:47 PM

Title: BNLS Question
Post by: David on October 21, 2005, 03:47 PM
Isn't is true that passwords and keys are sent un-hashed to the BNLS server, and anyone with access to the server, if they wanted to, not saying the would, could retrieve keys / usernames / passwords?
Title: Re: BNLS Question
Post by: UserLoser. on October 21, 2005, 04:12 PM
Quote from: David on October 21, 2005, 03:47 PM
Isn't is true that passwords and keys are sent un-hashed to the BNLS server, and anyone with access to the server, if they wanted to, not saying the would, could retrieve keys / usernames / passwords?

Uh huh.  So what's your point?
Title: Re: BNLS Question
Post by: David on October 21, 2005, 07:25 PM
I don't have issues with it, I personally use BNLS, but someone was trying to tell a buddy of mine that they cannot retrieve the passwords and keys from the server.
Title: Re: BNLS Question
Post by: Kp on October 21, 2005, 07:55 PM
Quote from: David on October 21, 2005, 07:25 PMI don't have issues with it, I personally use BNLS, but someone was trying to tell a buddy of mine that they cannot retrieve the passwords and keys from the server.

Well, that someone probably cannot. :)  BNLS doesn't log any of that data, and the only other way to capture it would be by doing a wire capture of the inbound traffic.  Given the volume of data that the vL server moves (BNLS, botnet, TeamSpeak, etc.), doing a wire capture is not fun.  I wanted to do it once to try to debug some strangeness with one of our other services.  It did not go well. :)
Title: Re: BNLS Question
Post by: PaiD on October 21, 2005, 09:10 PM
Also if the login isnt for w3. BNLS never gets the Username.
Title: Re: BNLS Question
Post by: Joe[x86] on October 21, 2005, 09:36 PM
Quote from: Kp on October 21, 2005, 07:55 PM
Quote from: David on October 21, 2005, 07:25 PMI don't have issues with it, I personally use BNLS, but someone was trying to tell a buddy of mine that they cannot retrieve the passwords and keys from the server.

Well, that someone probably cannot. :) BNLS doesn't log any of that data, and the only other way to capture it would be by doing a wire capture of the inbound traffic. Given the volume of data that the vL server moves (BNLS, botnet, TeamSpeak, etc.), doing a wire capture is not fun. I wanted to do it once to try to debug some strangeness with one of our other services. It did not go well. :)

Ethereal filter, ((tcp.port == 9367)). You've got the BNLS traffic. Nothing more, nothing less. =)
Title: Re: BNLS Question
Post by: The-FooL on October 21, 2005, 11:41 PM
Think of it this way: with all the thousands of logins at any given time, if they wanted to steal a key, what is the chance that it would be yours?
Title: Re: BNLS Question
Post by: Explicit on October 22, 2005, 03:21 AM
Quote from: The-FooL on October 21, 2005, 11:41 PM
Think of it this way: with all the thousands of logins at any given time, if they wanted to steal a key, what is the chance that it would be yours?

They wouldn't want it, period.
Title: Re: BNLS Question
Post by: Eric on October 22, 2005, 03:42 AM
If they were to require that the passwords and/or CD-Keys be hashed before they were transmitted, it would defeat the purpose of using BNLS.
Title: Joe, think a bit before you post...
Post by: Kp on October 22, 2005, 08:37 AM
Quote from: Joe on October 21, 2005, 09:36 PM
Quote from: Kp on October 21, 2005, 07:55 PM
Quote from: David on October 21, 2005, 07:25 PMI don't have issues with it, I personally use BNLS, but someone was trying to tell a buddy of mine that they cannot retrieve the passwords and keys from the server.
Well, that someone probably cannot. :) BNLS doesn't log any of that data, and the only other way to capture it would be by doing a wire capture of the inbound traffic. Given the volume of data that the vL server moves (BNLS, botnet, TeamSpeak, etc.), doing a wire capture is not fun. I wanted to do it once to try to debug some strangeness with one of our other services. It did not go well. :)
Ethereal filter, ((tcp.port == 9367)). You've got the BNLS traffic. Nothing more, nothing less. =)

You completely missed the point of my post.  Finding a particular event is easy, if you're willing to incur the overhead of capturing all the junk that's coming through the box.  Even using a capture filter instead of a display filter, there's overhead associated with capturing all the packets just so they can be discarded.  My point was that trying to run a capture on a serious production box (particularly a Windows-based one that doesn't even have decent capture tools shipped with the distribution!) is a nuisance, not that it cannot be done.
Title: Re: BNLS Question
Post by: Networks on October 22, 2005, 03:11 PM
If you're worried about it, there are numerous methods of using BNLS functions to not have to use hash files while not sacrificing security: BNCSutil. Hash the information and send the hash information to BNLS and all is well providing someone doesn't try to brute your hash. At least it's harder. :D
Title: Re: BNLS Question
Post by: David on October 22, 2005, 08:41 PM
This whole topic was just to prove a point to someone, I wasn't trying to down the BNLS server, I use it, I like it, I always have.
Title: Re: BNLS Question
Post by: Explicit on October 22, 2005, 08:59 PM
If you already knew how BNLS functioned, why make an entire thread asking the question? It's been covered many times in the past.
Title: Re: BNLS Question
Post by: Lenny on October 23, 2005, 06:37 PM
BNLS is just one of those things you use at your own risk.  Whether or not your information is stolen, the responsibility still lies with the user.  You must remember BNLS is a free service.

And it's already been stated before, it's just silly to do anything besides checkrevision remotely...
Title: Re: BNLS Question
Post by: Grok on October 24, 2005, 10:07 AM
In all the years BNLS has been running, I am unaware of a single security breach, or even an unsupported complaint of one.
Title: Re: BNLS Question
Post by: Soul Taker on October 24, 2005, 01:35 PM
I've heard of security breaches, but they were by good-willed people and no information was stolen, and the holes were fixed.
Title: Re: BNLS Question
Post by: Grok on October 24, 2005, 01:48 PM
In the BNLS service application?
Title: Re: BNLS Question
Post by: Soul Taker on October 24, 2005, 03:45 PM
Yea, I recall UL found a buffer overflow that let him see people's information, I assume it was information currently being processed.
Title: Re: BNLS Question
Post by: UserLoser. on October 24, 2005, 03:48 PM
Yes, this is true and I reported it right to Skywing & IIRC Kp at the time it happened.  I don't think I will go into details though ;)
Title: Re: BNLS Question
Post by: Kp on October 24, 2005, 08:19 PM
It wasn't a buffer overflow.  UserLoser broke protocol and the server happened to try to answer him instead of just killing the connection on principle.  The disclosure was fixed very quickly, and I think BNLS now kills connections which violate protocol in that way. :)
Title: Re: BNLS Question
Post by: UserLoser. on October 25, 2005, 07:31 AM
Er, didn't see his post about the buffer overflow.  Yeah it wasn't a buffer overflow, I just did something when you were not supposed to and it let me...like Kp said